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 Post subject: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 4:29 am 
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Greetings to all, participate in Awards AoB 2008 sending the photography of a Ficus Natalensis designed in the Ne-Agari style. I would like to know his criticizes and observations, because she was considered because it is not a Bonsai.

Although I understand that the Ne-Agari style or is not popular or in disuse nowadays, continues being a recognized style and we found it in the nature when due to a swelling of a river, by example, the ground retires, being the exposed roots and give support to the tree.

This tree is 10 years old and I obtained it to start off of seed and happened between 4 to 5 years so that the roots were able to give support to the tree.

Excuse my English and I hope to be able to receive its opinions,

Thank you very much

José Daniel Fernandez


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Ficus natalensis Exposed Root.jpg
Ficus natalensis Exposed Root.jpg [ 2.43 MiB | Viewed 2430 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 11:11 pm 
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It appears from the picture that little has been done to the tree other than the roots (they are impressive though). I think if the top showed more branch work with some clearly defined pads and a definate apex it would have been accepted. These are only my thoughts and I have nothing to do with the contest or the workings of this forum. I think this tree could be a good one with refinement.


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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 7:18 pm 
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Location: Long Island, NY
Also not involved in the contest myself (keep in mind, that even though they are world known artists, the judges for our contests still have their own opinions on things, which may, or may not, reflect other opinions.), but that being said....

I tend to agree with Steve on this one. The base is beautiful really, but there is very little, if any (at least, it seems from this picture) refinement done on anything else, which may have contributed to his comment.


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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 7:10 am 
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Jose Daniel Fernandez wrote:
Although I understand that the Ne-Agari style or is not popular or in disuse nowadays, continues being a recognized style and we found it in the nature when due to a swelling of a river, by example, the ground retires, being the exposed roots and give support to the tree.


I have not been a judge in this part of the competition, so I think I can give my view. It is not a bonsai, because it does not look like a bonsai. It is about the aesthetic expression. It looks like a plant in a pot that can be developed into a bonsai with time, but a is missing the natural feeling and expression of a bonsai; I do not see the tree, but a plant.
It has nothing to do with the style, but the styling. Hope this clarifies a bit, although this is just my view on it.

Regards
Morten Albek


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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2009 9:48 pm 
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Greetings to all, thanks for its commentaries. Treatment to understand the saying by You; if they saw it in person. I understand that in the Ne-Agari style, the Bonsai is supported by the roots and its length has to be of 1 a 2 times the height of the trunk, that the appearance and texture by the roots have to be the same ones that the one of the trunk, in the photo are not appraised but the glass this formed by enough branches and for the stop of the plant the leaves has reduced enough of size; I understand that it is a young plant, is going to fulfill hardly 10 years and still him lack to mature more. I have the illusion that becomes a good Bonsai of that style. All the people who see person it it seems to them that this obtained good; in aim: That they think that I can do? They can give some photographic examples me of Bonsai in the Ne-Agari style?

Thank you very much by its commentaries,

Pardon my English, use the translator of the Word

Jose Daniel Fernandez


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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 5:40 pm 
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Location: Devon, England.
Jose, I like this tree a lot but there are a few problems that need to be sorted out.
The pot and roots are great.The main problem is with the branches.
The first left branch is to heavy compared to the trunk.If this cannot be thinned than maybe it should be removed and replaced with the next left branch and allow this one to grow out.
The rest of the branches need to be thinned out to allow some negative areas ( space )to be formed. This would than give the light image that this tree deserves.


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peter's virt.JPG
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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 7:07 pm 
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Hello Peter, thanks for your commentaries. The one that you will follow is easy to obtain. It will eliminate part of the branches the left and will create emptinesses between the branches of the right. Also, it will transplant the tree to pote smaller.

What I did not understand is the one by the very high roots, you suggest prunes something of the roots so that the overall height is smaller? Whatever? I see that you drew a red line, until would be the overall height of the tree there?

Once again thanks, really I would like to by the way obtain a good Bonsai in this style, very little.

Jose Daniel


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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:26 pm 
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Location: Devon, England.
Jose Daniel Fernandez wrote:
I see that you drew a red line,



Jose Daniel


Jose, everthing below the red line is Very Good.


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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 13, 2009 5:40 pm 
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Peter, that means to prune the tree to that height and to construct a new ramification. Being a nonserious Ficus greater problem because it emits new branches easily. As far as the length by the roots, this good thus? , or also it would be necessary to reduce them of size?

thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 12:06 am 
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Location: Michigan USA
Jose,

Thanks for posting this question, it covers territory that can often be hurtful, misinterpreted, and often misunderstood. It was polite, to the point, and professional, as were the replies.

I agree with the others in that the tree as presented lacks foliage detail, the trunk and exposed roots are excellent, I also like the pot choice. Once you refine the foliage, creating more ramification and obtaining some leaf reduction, this will indeed be a very nice bonsai. I hope to see this in future contests.

If I may make a suggestion, post this over at http://knowledgeofbonsai.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=68 where Robert Steven gives styling advice. He has done some remarkable things with material such as this and listening to him and the others there may bring some ideas into play for your consideration. If nothing else, such critiques can confirm your own path.

Thanks for entering the contest last year, and thanks for posting this question, it was a great one,



Will


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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 16, 2009 8:21 am 
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Will, thanks for your comment. In any time I felt bad, you were looking for precisely were critics them constructive for improving this tree. Ten years was just a seed and a long road ahead is still missing. Style ne-Agari is not easy for achieve and is not common to see it today; it is a challenge succeed but this variety Ficus seems to me that it is appropriate for this style.

I will register at knowledgeofbonsai.org for consult Forum on Robert Stevens and know your comments to improve the tree.

Once more thank you,

José Daniel


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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:46 am 
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Location: Bangalore India
Hi Jose,

I agree with what others have said here before and also wish to add on to the same.

I am enclosing a picture which is a simple cut copy paste of your original photograph with minor changes which I believe greatly enhance the beauty of the tree.

I believe that neagari is not a very common style but your tree has the potential of a very good bonsai. Wishing you the best.

Ravi


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Jose.jpg
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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:38 am 
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Ravi thanks for your comment. Style Neagari actually is not popular today but I see pictures of this style in the book "the art of bonsai creation, care and enjoyment" author " Yuji Yoshimura and Giovanna M. Halford" "pag 90" and inspire me to create my tree.
I will consider all comments to make better decisions and improve quality.

Jose Daniel


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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 3:55 am 
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The popularity of a style or how often it is seen must newer be taken into account. It has no meaning. What matters is how well the bonsai is created. Nothing else.
The neagari style is wonderfull, but as with the literati style, it is not easy to achieve a convincing image.

Regards
Morten Albek


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 Post subject: Re: Why not a Bonsai?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 9:26 am 
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Is not popular is because they actually are not many Bonsai in neagari style, particularly in Venezuela is not anyone that has it, that and the pictures are what inspired me to create this tree. Use Ficus natalensis for being a very kind and quick to make Bonsai. In 4 years the plant has already been argued about their roots. What I can not even give it more character, I imagine only time will succeed. Actually like the style or Literati Bunjin is difficult to achieve because there are almost no branches and are in the latter third of the tree. Try to move to the roots and I believe that this accomplished but the trunk is straight and not move and that is why the tree still has quality. Terms of branches and leaves can be improved with more pruning, so that more secondary twigs and leaves are smaller.
Other tips are welcome, thanks
Jose Daniel


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